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Oct 06, 2005

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Dave Hackett

This is well said. "Each disciple has to become a competent minister dispersed into the realm to which they are called...[W]e need to talk to [each disciple] about three things: mission, mission, and mission."

Maybe if we called it "your mission" instead of "mission," people would understand that each disciple is able to partake in God's grand mission.

Thank you for your reflections on this.

Dave Hackett

grace

Another excellent post. You've explained so well the thoughts that are swirling around in my mind. I've been thinking along the lines of regaining our identity as the "people of God." I think this entails the things you discussed here of understanding our call to mission rather than settling into "homes."

Karl Landstrom

You have grossly underestimated the mission accomplishments of faithful christian laity in he country, who, in working toward acceptance by the people of Christ as their Savior, have accomplished more than than all the efforts of clergy combined. Presbyterians refer to their laity as ministers jointly with clergy.

Michael Kruse

Karl, I would invite you to check out my September 29 post "Klaos - The "Clergy People of God" and the Myth of Laity." You wrote "Presbyterians refer to their laity as ministers jointly with clergy." I agree that all of us are ministers but there are no laity and every believer is part of the clergy "kleros," or God's inheritance. Laity is a concept foriegn to the New Testament Church.

Also, accepting Jesus as my savior is not enough. Jesus is Lord. That demands my obedience and faithfulness to the mission he has called us to; bring every person and realm under his loving, life-giving, Lordship. Savior is important and essential, but if that is all he is, than we have missed the point.

I agree that the non-pastors have accomplished much that goes unseen or recognized. It just goes to show how God uses he people often in spite of themselves

Thanks for stopping in!

Rodger Sellers

While being a bit tempted to do a "disection" on the previous post (two posts?) I'll simply make a comment in disagreement. Granted, we Presbyterians "refer" to our laity as "ministers jointly with clergy." I'm interested in, and wonder Mike if you're pointing in the same direction, at seeing something a bit more "kinetic" than just words here. (Seems to me -- and I've been guilty of it myself -- that this is far too often just a cliche' on the back of the Sunday bulletin.) Show me a community that's operationally defined this reference in their life and work beyond just lip service, and I'll show you a hundred that are great with all the talk, but just don't believe it deep down. (Like my post earlier today about who actually goes to the hospital to see Mr. Jones before his surgery.)

It's not a matter of people not being faithful or engaging in ministry and mission. It's a matter of whether we are a hierarchial organization (the "army" of the Lord)or a intimate organism of vastly diverse parts all committed to (and equally valued by) the whole. (Which is what I thought the "Body of Christ" was supposed to connote to us.)

RPS

PS:

"Nobody wants to play rhythm guitar behind Jesus,
Everybody wants to be the lead singer in the band.
But it's hard to get a bead on what's devine,
When ev'rybody's pushing for the head of the line,
I don't think it's working out at all,
The way it's planned."
(Song by: Thomas A. Hill)

Michael Kruse

Thanks Dave. I agree. I think first we have to understand the big mission. Then we need to understand our context. Then we need to now our personal gifts/passions/apptitudes. All of these together help us see how our personal package can best be applied to accomplish the big mission our specific context. To me, that is calling.

Michael Kruse

"It's not a matter of people not being faithful or engaging in ministry and mission. It's a matter of whether we are a hierarchial organization (the "army" of the Lord)or a intimate organism of vastly diverse parts all committed to (and equally valued by) the whole. (Which is what I thought the "Body of Christ" was supposed to connote to us.)"

Well said Rodger. Thanks. Kinetic and organic are good words too.

We say on our bulletins that we are all ministers but... People who go to seminary are entering THE ministry. The person up front is THE minister and is in "full-time Christian service." We haven't been visited in the hospital until the one with "Rev." in front of their name appears. We wouldn't go to a lay-dentist, a lay-airline pilot, or a lay-lawyer, but content to have lay-Christians or lay-ministers.

I know what we say. I also know how we live.

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