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Sep 30, 2008

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ZZMike

Thanks for the diligent work of categorizing.

I might think of this as a Great Debate. It would be interesting to go through and add up the score: points for, points against.

I'm coming into the middle of this one, and I don't know yet if anyone brought up Kenneth Bailey, but I remember an article he did that might be useful - because he is a Middle East scholar, as well as Biblical:

Women in the New Testament

Here's a short clip, where he talks about Paul's "permit no woman to teach" - he says we can understand that line as

"I permit none of these theologically ignorant women (in Ephesus) to teach because they have brought their syncretic religious beliefs with them into the Church."

He goes on to put the rest of 1 Tim 1:10 in perspective.

Bailey points out that

"... Priscilla taught Apollos, and every reader of Luke 1:46-55 was instructed by Mary."

It seems to me that the case against women in the ministry comes from a narrow interpretation of selected verses. Were I uncharitable, I'd add that it was an interpretation promoted by men intending to keep their positional authority.

Cheryl Schatz

Good job on your list. This is the time to rethink these hard passages of scripture on the issue of women because a woman nominated as VP has made many realize the contradictory view in the church. I have written an article that documents the change in one organization that is dedicated to keeping the church obeying all the rules about what women can and cannot do in the church. It is interesting to see the change in CBMW (Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood) through the years regarding authority in society. My documentation is here http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/09/30/three-spheres-of-subordination-shrinks-to-two/.

Michael W. Kruse

Thanks for the link Cheryl!

ZZMike

One more thought:

Paul said "I permit no woman to teach...".

In another place (about marriage, I think), he adds, "this is me talking, not the Lord".

So I'd argue that it's Paul's idea alone, about women not teaching, and he's talking to Timothy and the church at Ephesus.

And as the note at net.bible.org points out, saying that women should learn:

"... Verse 11 gives a positive statement (that is to say, that a woman should learn). This was a radical and liberating departure from the Jewish view that women were not to learn the law."

Rahab Klingensmith

My comments on this particular subject that of being "Women In Ministry" again; which unfortunatley continues to be an issue....I always reflect back to the books written in the Bible ...starting with Genesis 2 that clearly states, and represents factual evidence through heremenutical instructions: Example Geneisis 2:18 , and so on. God provided Adam with a suitalbe helper; as well as provided Adam with a female companion and partner for reproduction. Therefore, in its explanations it identifies that man alone could NOT fully identify his humanity without the creation of the woman involved. "Exegesis is mediated to all of us through the scriptures, and its heremenutical interpretations". God choose the apostle Paul to teach, writes letters, and interpret for His reasons: Not for men to defile themselves through blisters of confusion....more fighting seems to do them good. If we seriously apply what it was that Pauls letters discribed--it is ALL there written in GODS words....what He felt we should all obide by. Complete demonstrations are written in Timothy, Titus 2 -Women and their appropriate behaviors-even with the younger generation, hummmm....I mean really...it is a no brainer when a person "Truthfully", "completely", "earnestly obides by Gods Laws". Paul was choosen....Rahab was choosen..all for their own parts to fufill--as it was asked for respectfully in Genesis....even before the fall of man took place. Its a done deal...and so often and so clearly seen as to its successes or to thwarted efforts. To much debate on this issue, only perhaps it was wrong from the beginning. Let the Man preach...and the Woman be willing to be attentive to churches needs....

Melody Hanson

Just a heads up that your links no longer work with the website moving. Sadly.

Michael W. Kruse

Well bummer! I'll see what I can do about fixing that.

Michael W. Kruse

Melody, all links should now be fixed. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

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