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Jun 27, 2008

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Anonymous

How can an AI override explicit text in the Book of Order?

If GA passes an AI saying that a Session or Congregation can make decisions by consesnsus rather than using Robert's Rules, would that be legitimate?

Michael W. Kruse

Sorry that my 3rd paragraph failed to completely materialize.

Two obstacles have stood in the way of ordaining avowedly homosexually active persons.

First, is the 1978 AI calling homosexual acts sin. Second, the G-6.0106B section of the Book of Order.

The actions today rendered the 1978 AI irrelevant. The new AI does not affect the the Book of Order. However, because the Assembly also has given an AI that says you may scruple behaviors all that is needed is for a candidate for ordination to find a church or presbytery (depending on the office) that deems sexual behavior inconsequential and you have sanctioned ordination of avowedly homosexually active persons. Local option, essentially.

So it is true that the AI does not affect the Constitution but the first AI effectively makes adherence to the Constitution optional. Does that help?

Alan Wilkerson

Your last comment is right on. A very long hard look... I never thought GA could be as bad as this. I'd always had a sense of hope or at least a sense that it will work out in the Presbyteries but not this time.

We didn't shoot ourselves in the foot we've blown our brains out. Good luck brother talking sense to them.

Alan

Michael W. Kruse

Anon, I forgot. Concerning your question about Robert's Rules, I don't think it would work qutie that way. The is about standards to used for ordination. I suppose you could have a candidate with a theological objection to Robert's Rules. Then the ordaining body would have to decide what to do.

Alan this is all still fresh so it is hard to get perspective. But I do presently have a deep foreboding about it.

Neil

Here we go again. I'm not at all surprised by this. Our system continues to create deep division and further resentment between disagreeing parties. Is there no end to this issue?

Michael W. Kruse

I fear this round is going to be particularly brutal.

Andy

Mike, on a lighter note, can you help me understand the creation of the $2 million litigation fund?

I read the resolution that was passed by GA. It seems to suggest that the money will come ONLY from a voluntary fund established for the purpose, not from per capita. But it also promises $180,000 or so to the Presbytery of Northern New England. So this is my question for a guy who knows these things:

If churches don't pony up voluntarily, will that 180,000 be made up out of per capita? It does seem to be an iron-clad promise. And is it possible that the GAC or Synods would "donate" to the fund out of per capita?

Robert F.

In 1st Kings chapter 17, Elijah is camped by the brook. It dries up. God sends him to Zerephath.

Our brook has dried up. God wants to send us to Zerephath. Will we listen? Will we obey? Will we go to Zerephath?

In many ways this is a relief. Perhaps enough will realize we just had an apostate assembly. We no longer can stay. The brook has dried up. I suspect the EPC is Zerephath, but much prayer & listening is required.

Josiah F

For the change in the Book of Order to take place, there has to be an majority vote of approval from the 173 regional Presbyteries.

The first vote from a Presbytery is in.

At the 111th stated meeting of Palo Duro Presbytery. The amendment altering the ordination standards failed by a 29 for, 47 against vote. The bulk of the Presbyteries across the country will be voting on this in February.

Even though it was in Texas, the make-up of the voting body in this Presbytery is very mixed and the majority are moderates (with just a few far left and right).

Lets hope this voice of reason keeps rolling.

Michael W. Kruse

Thanks for your update, Josiah.

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