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Sep 26, 2008

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Mark

I've only read the Weston paper in depth, but in glancing at the others it seems to me to be out of place in this list.

I have one overarching criticism of that paper - it seems to be a call to return to the church of the 1950's. It seems to be a call to restore the tall-steeple, old-boys network in power. I have VERY specific and deep problems with the dismissal of young people as leaders.

I don't know how we can expect our young to stick with or return to the church if we patronize them.

David Brush

If you have iTunes Fuller Seminary has placed two videos of Darrell Gruder presenting on the first paper listed above.

1. http://deimos3.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/Browse/fuller.edu.1302926166.01302926173.1303075383?i=1288166013

2. http://deimos3.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/Browse/fuller.edu.1302926166.01302926173.1303059054?i=1365072995

Audio Versions.

1. http://deimos3.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/Browse/fuller.edu.1302926166.01302926172.1303154017?i=1652608302

2. http://deimos3.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/Browse/fuller.edu.1302926166.01302926172.1303336510?i=1152688347

Michael W. Kruse

Mark

Others have expressed similar concerns. I think it is good to have some controversial ideas on the table. They help clarify issues. We aren't looking to adopt any of these a strategy paper. :-)

David

Thanks for the links! I'll have to see if can get to these a little later.

David

I'm exactly where Mark is: I've read the Weston paper fully, but have yet to get through the others. (I will, though!) My summary of the Weston paper: Let's just undo every change we've made to the PC(USA) since 1955, and we'll go back to the same church we were in 1955.

However strange this idea seems to me, I think it's valuable for the leadership of the church to hear it, because there are lots of folks out in Presby-land who believe that. They just want to go back. Our leaders need to acknowledge those people's desire to go back, even as they grapple with moving forward.

Michael W. Kruse

Well, I don't think Beau is calling for a repeal of the ordination of women or the exclusion of African-Americans from church leadership, so I wouldn't say is his taking us back to 1955.

What I hear Beau saying is that we over reacted against authority and structures. I'm not endorsing his solutions but I do think his critique of the impact 1960s activism had on the church is important to consider. Personally, I think we will likely have to evolve into something that looks significantly different from either pre-1950s or post-1950s church life.

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